55 to 35. trump is up four points among independent men. clinton also the overwhelming voice of black voters were 95%. >> all this as donald trump attacks the political fire storm over his taxes, touting his own financial brilliance and possibly avoiding federal taxes for nearly two decades. hillary clinton, though, slamming her opponent as the king of greed, accusing him of taking from america with both hands. cnn's phil mattingly has a lot to talk about. he's live in farmville, virginia, the site of tonight's vice presidential debate. hi, phil. >> reporter: hey, alisyn. in an election year that's running increasingly low on days until the actual voters go to the polls, donald trump's taxes are all anybody's talking about. whichever candidate gets the upper hand on this issue, they may very well win the white house. >> i understand the tax laws better than almost anyone, which is why i am the one who can fix them. >> reporter: dangerous campaign

liability or political opportunity? >> i have brilliantly used those laws. >> reporter: donald trump hoping for the latter after the leak of a few pages of his 1995 tax return. attempting to turn the fact he may not have paid federal income tax in years into a testament of his business expertise. >> as a business person, i've legally used the tax laws to benefit -- really, it's to my benefit, and to benefit my company, my investors, my employees. my family. >> reporter: the clinton campaign attempting to undermine trump's spin. >> some of his supporters said, well, it just shows he's a genius. that he didn't pay any taxes. what kind of genius loses a billion dollars in the first place? >> reporter: painting the republican nominee as representing the same system he claims he's going to change. >> trump was taking from america with both hands and leaving the rest of us with the bill.

>> reporter: trump trying to down play the near billion-dollar loss "the new york times" reported he had leading up to 1995. >> the conditions facing real estate developers in the early '90s were almost as bad as the great depression in 1929 and far worse than the great recession in 2008. >> reporter: while casting himself as the comeback kid. >> i used the tax laws of our country and my skills as a business person to dig out of this real estate depression when few others were able to do that. >> reporter: this as trump sparks new criticism after suggesting that veterans suffering from ptsd lack strength. >> when people come back from war and combat and they see things that maybe a lot of the folks in this room have seen many times over and you're strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can't handle it. >> reporter: and guys, that's a comment that really flies in the face of a central tenant of how to treat post-traumatic stress

that doctors have figured out over the last decade. the trump campaign pushing back saying that comment was taken out of context. pushing back, the marine staff sergeant who posed the question that illicited that response. they feel comfortable they're on safe ground when it comes to what he had to say. chris? >> i'll take it, phil. thank you very much for that preview. the first and only vice presidential debate gets under way in just hours. senator tim kaine and governor mike pence are ready to face off in virginia. that's where we find cnn's sunlen serfaty. she's live with a preview. >> reporter: good morning. both candidates really seem to be taking a much more disciplined, much more consistent approach as they prepare for this debate. that's certainly notable for mike pence because he's preparing in a much different way than his own running mate, donald trump. engaging in more traditional debate prep. we know both candidates, mike pence and tim kaine, are running through these full-fledged mock debates, practicing with their aides and using stand-ins to play their opponent.

certainly for team pence, first and foremost, top on their mind going into tonight is that they know that they're going to get questions and likely have to address the continued fallout over donald trump's tax returns. now, meantime, tim kaine certainly trying to cash in on homefield advantage, this being hometown of the former virginia governor, where aides say he'll likely be trying to draw a distinct contrast as far as ideological differences between him and mike pence tonight. certainly this being their first and only debate, chris, a lot here at stake. >> all right. thank you very much. joins us now from the site of tonight's vp debate, chief strategist and communications director of the rnc, sean spicer. thanks for being with us. let's try and get a taste of what the state of play will be tonight. there's a new ad out going at tim kaine specifically. well timed to tonight's debate. let's take a little look at it, and then we'll discuss its implication. >> percy walton brutally

murdered three people. as governor, tim kaine commuted his sentence, citing concerns disproved by the courts. yen soren and his girlfriend murdered derek and nancy, stabbing them to death in their home. on his last day as governor, tim kaine tried to have him sent to germany, where parole would have been possible in just two years. >> this ad is being likened to willie horton ads from back in the day, although you did have some white defendants at play as well. what's the point of this ad? what's the attack angle? >> first of all, i don't think it compares to willie horton. as you pointed out, the folks in the ad are all -- three of the four are white. this just goes back to tim kaine's record. there are rapists and murderers he defended to keep out of prison that have done horrible things. part of this is tim kaine had previously said that someone should be judged by the totality of their record. this is the tim kaine part of the record that they don't want to discuss.

his defense of people who went out and murdered and raped people. >> but he was a lawyer, sean. that's a what lawyer does, defend people's rights. >> no, no, no. i think everybody makes choices in their careers to what they do and don't do. he wants to talk about his record, he should be judged on the totality of his record. >> sean, i want to understand the criticism. we both agree, of course, you have the right to do whatever you want to do. you get judged for your choices. so are you saying that people who commit crimes and are facing the death penalty shouldn't have lawyers? >> no, that's a constitutional right. there's a difference between -- he went out and advocated and talked about and tried to get them off the hook for certain things. >> because he doesn't believe in the death penalty. he's a catholic and has a moral opposition to the death penalty. as an advocate of the law, he went out there and argued that. i don't understand how it's a criticism. >> he made a choice to go out and defend -- it's not just about the death penalty. it's about making shower they served the least amount of time possible. that's a big difference.

you know, it's amazing how quick everyone runs to tim kaine's defense. the fact of the matter is that his record should be looked at in its totality. he went out and defended people who committed heinous crimes, and he sought to get the lowest penalty for them. that's fine. he chose to do that. but he should be judged for it as well. that's part of his record. >> certainly fair play. that's what politicians do. they play up what they think will be their positives, down play their negatives. i'm just trying to get your head on where this attack goes, this ad. then there's also this one you guys are circulating around about him spending time with this marxist when he was down in south america. it was a priest. he was on mission, and he was spending time with this catholic priest you guys are defining as a marxist. i guess all priests are marxists in some ways. what's the point of that criticism? >> again, i think part of this is to talk about his ideology and his record. tim kaine wants to white wash what, you know -- just look at the last few years and he

doesn't want to talk about its totality. he doesn't want to talk about the fact when he was governor of virginia, unemployment went up, taxes went up. there's a huge contrast. i think part of the problem is that the clinton/kaine machine only wants to talk about pieces of their record. they should be judged on the totality of it. the people they hung out with, the choices they made, and the people they defended. let's look at it all. that's the point here. >> absolutely. that's your job, my friend. you want to expose what you see as avenues of opportunity. how do you feel tonight it goes between kaine and mike pence? do you think kaine is going to come at pence for his conservativism on a cultural level, his resistance to rights for the lgbtq community, his desire to try to keep out syrian refugees out of indiana, a court just telling him he can't do that. do you think that will find its way into the debate? >> i think tim kaine is going to try to do everything he can to distract and distort from the real record. the fact is what i just mentioned. when tim kaine was governor,

taxes went up, unemployment went up. in indiana, taxes have gone down. i think you're going to see a huge contrast in their records and a huge contrast in the tone. mike pence and donald trump are talking about bringing change to washington, ending the status quo and business as usual. tim kaine and hillary clinton are literally the epitome of the establishment and status quo. if you're happy with washington, the way things are going with a government that's unresponsive, i think that you should vote for hillary clinton and tim kaine. they are literally, you know, they tout their experience, time in government, the establishment and bureaucracy. that's what they're all about. if you're ready for change, you'll see the contrast tonight. >> i just asked you about the lgbt and the syrian refugees and you ignored it. well played. ignore the weak parts and focus on the strong parts. >> you asked if tim kaine was going to attack. >> i know. i was looking for your take on those issues.

>> let me answer the question. on the syrian refugee front, i think mike pence is going to talk about him doing everything as governor to protect the people of indiana. that's his job. while the courts may overturn it, that doesn't mean mike pence didn't and will continue to do the right things and look after the interest and safety of every citizen in indiana. no matter what a court says, that doesn't mean you don't fight for the right thing every time. >> except the court said he was fighting for the wrong things. one last thing. on taxes with trump, 57% of people polled are now concerned that trump is hiding something. and that's why he won't release his taxes. do you believe that he should now release his taxes as every other candidate has? >> he's made it very clear he's under audit and as soon as the audit is over, he'll do it. >> how about the audit letter? release the audit letter, just one. >> that's up to him. i'm not in a position to -- it's up to him, his counsel to decide

what they can and can't release. >> sean spicer, well argued, as always. thanks for coming to us early in the morning. you're always welcome on "new day." appreciate having you. >> thanks, chris. meantime, the vice presidential nominees, indiana governor mike pence and virginia senator tim kaine, face off tonight right where sean spicer just was. 9:00 p.m. eastern. we'll have full coverage starting at 4:00. what will change in the race after tonight? alisyn? hillary clinton and donald trump sparring over trump's leaked taxes. he says he's a genius for doing that. clinton says he's anything but. how will this all play out? our panel discusses that next. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it.

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donald trump and hillary clinton sparring on the campaign trail over the new tax revelations. >> as a businessman and real estate developer, i have legally used the tax laws to my benefit. honestly, i have brilliantly used those laws. >> while millions of american families, including mine and

yours, were working hard, paying our fair share, it seems he was contributing nothing to our nation. trump represents the same rigged seasonal that he claims he's going to change. >> all right. let's discuss this with cnn political commentator and former donald trump campaign manager corey lewandowski and cnn political commentator and clinton supporter christine quinn. corey, we're now 24 hours into this, at least. it sounds like the trump campaign is not denying that he has not paid federal income taxes for the past 18 years. are we right? >> that's not what he said. what the extrapolation here is, based on the losses he supposedly claimed in 995 and the revenue he made in 1995, if you extrapolate that and donald trump made the same amount of money year after year after year, then "the new york times" has said he paid no taxes. >> the campaign is not denying

"the new york times" report and their math. so has he paid federal income taxes? >> as a businessman and an obligation to his business, he's done what every other businessman has done in this country, including warren buffett, hillary clinton's favorite billionaire. so look, this is what business people do. under the same exact rules in 1995, half a million people took the same deduction donald trump did. >> the only difference is, corey, it also appears that donald trump, at least since 2008, has not given money to charity. >> let me stop you because that's not true. >> go ahead. tell us. >> unequivocally, the marine corps law enforcement foundation here in new york received a million-dollar check from donald trump last year. you can call jim -- >> from his own wallet, not from the trump foundation. >> we didn't say the trump foundation. you said he hasn't given money to charity. >> his personal wallet. >> he wrote a personal check. you can check with the marine corps law enforcement foundation. he gave a million-dollar check. i encourage you to check on

that. to say he hasn't given money to charity is factually inaccurate. >> a million dollars is impressive. it's not as impressive for a billionaire. all of this could be cleared up if he released his taxes. then we'd know how much he gives to charity and his effective tax rate. why not do that? >> the irs is a failed organization. they've been auditing donald trump for the last ten years. >> the irs says he can release them while being audited. >> why would you do that if you're under routine audit? >> so people don't doubt your charitable giving and your tax rate and all these questions swirling around. >> then you have every potential accountant in the country going through every line of his tax returns and potentially causing more problems or being a monday morning quarterback. if i were a cpa, i'd say absolutely don't release. >> there are challenges for your side on this as well. i want to bring those up. in the latest polling, 73% of registered voters would like donald trump to release his tax

returns. 57% of registered voters believe that he's hiding something. is that a problem, corey? >> i think if the irs would do their job quicker and more efficiently, we would see the taxes. what donald trump has said very clearly in a debate, i will release all of my taxes as soon as hillary clinton releases her 33,000 e-mails. >> that's different, by the way, than the i'm being audited. he's changed the logic on that one. but he won't care he's being audited if hillary clinton is releasing e-mails. here's the thing. we've just had a panel of trump supporters on. they don't see this as a big deal. they do see the fact that he's made so much money and that he's been able to work the system in this way as a sign of his business acumen. let me play a sound bite of what his supporters say. >> i don't know anybody that checks the box under tax returns and says, i want to pay twice as much as i need to. so i don't have a problem with it. if it was done legally -- he's been audited every year, apparently forever. i don't have a problem with it. >> to me, it doesn't matter what

his tax returns show. it's more about what kind of person he is. politicians are more crooked than businessmen, to me. >> it doesn't matter to them. it's working for him, what he's saying about why he took this loss and may not have paid federal income taxes. >> one, i don't think anyone thinks that the hardcore donald trump supporters, right, the people he's kind of had throughout the whole process, whatever that hardcore number is, i don't think this is going to change their opinion. i don't think actually there's a lot between now and november that's going to change their opinion, honestly. that, with all due respect, isn't relevant to me as it relates to between now and election day. for independent voters, as we're seeing with hillary picking up white college educated voters, there are a significant portion and groups of voters to whom this matters. why does it matter? one, corey couldn't even answer the question of has the campaign denied this. they have not denied this. they haven't denied this, one

can extrapolate, because there's truth to the report. what this report shows is a number of things. one, donald trump is not the sensational business person he claims to be. sensational business people don't seemingly hold back this loss. >> hold on. not exactly. you can also spin it in a different way, which is, yes, he had this big loss because he was overextended and risk taking, which is what the investigation has shown, but he's the phoenix that rose from the ashes. he came back from that. >> potentially, but we don't know the actual story. >> we do know the story. >> no, corey, you got to go. with all due respect, i sat her respectfully. corey needs to do the same. >> go ahead. >> whether he rose from the ashes or not, being a good business person is focusing on the entirety of your business. we know when he took this loss he left a significant portion of new jersey small business people holding the bag and never paying

them. beyond that, this speaks to donald trump's tremendous hypocrisy. he spent much of this campaign criticizing people and hedge funders and other groups who don't pay taxes, never saying he did the same thing. >> that's a good point. corey, i want to bring that up. he has hit president obama as well as other people who he thought were not paying a high enough tax rate. so that does sound like hypocrisy, now that we know he might not have been paying any federal income tax. >> we don't know that's the case. >> he hasn't denied it. >> "the new york times" miraculously received in the mail -- >> as did other news organizations. people want this information out. >> and decides to publish it. he should be held accountable for that. number two, warren buffett, the

liberals of the left who have business executives who no one questions how successful -- >> and give millions of dollars to charity. >> how much has george given to charity? he's worth billions. >> you said donald trump gave one million. >> you said he's never given money to charity. i said it's factually inaccurate. >> he's never released his taxes. >> i gave you one example. there's hundreds of examples out there. >> bring more in tomorrow when you're back. >> and if we had his taxes, we'd know. with all due respect, he hasn't answered one question you've asked him because there are no good answers. the trump campaign can't answer about his hypocrisy. they divert, divert, divert. >> thank you. i look forward to seeing more of your evidence tomorrow. thank you. you guys get fired up at the end of the segment. have you noticed that? >> i'm trying to be respectful, but corey is interrupting. just riles a girl up. >> take it to the green room,

people. chris? >> two takeaways, my friend. one, they love to work the clock at the end of the segment. second, whenever they say with all due respect, you're getting punched in the nose. those are two takeaways there. coming up next, we'll have more of our one-on-one with vice president joe biden. what he thinks you should look for tonight in the vp debate and why he believes this race matters more than ever. here's a taste. >> if you had known back then what you know now about what this race is, you would have made a different decision? >> would he have? would he be in the race right now? next. ery 10 nights you stay, you get one free. which is great for families. finally! whatever captain obvious. hotels.com. great for families. mom! and for sore losers! i'm claudine and i quit smoking with chantix. smoking's a monkey on my back. it was, it was always controlling your time, your actions, your money. it had me. it had me. i would not be a non-smoker today

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okay. we have a weather alert for you right now. look at your screen. hurricane matthew is already battering haiti. it is about to make landfall there, and it has already killed people. the storm is also expected to hit cuba later today. millions of coastal residents in the u.s. are on high alert as the storm takes aim at the east coast. the governors of north carolina and florida have declared states of emergency. >> new hampshire senator kelly

ayotte says she misspoke when she said donald trump is a role model for children during a debate last night. >> would you point to him as a role model? >> i think that certainly there are many role models that we have, and i believe he can serve as president, so absolutely i would do that. >> and by absolutely, she later backtracked and said she didn't mean absolutely. she said that neither trump nor hillary clinton have set good examples for children. ayotte has not endorsed trump but will vote for him in november. zplmpbl attacked by a grizzly bear not once but twice. the video you're about to see is graphic. this man, todd ore, he lived to tell the story and share these gruesome videos of his injuries. he says he came upon two bear cubs and a very protective mama grizzly while hiking in montana this past weekend. he describes the attacks in detail in a facebook post, which

has been viewed 12 million times so far. he sums up the traumatic experience this way. he says, not my best day, but i'm alive. >> i disagree. any day you escape a grizzly bear is your best day ever. >> i see why you see it that way. i can't believe that he escaped. when you stumble upon two bear cubs, that's when you know, uh-oh, something bad might be about to happen. >> almost nobody walks away from that. he's a lucky man. now he has to deal with that hard question of survivors. why did i survive? what am i supposed to do with my life? those big questions. he's been given a blessing. that's for sure. lucky man. all right. let's get some more of our exclusive interview with vice president joe biden. he was very spicy in this interview. he opened up about why this race matters, why the middle class needs to be addressed. he also talked about why he didn't run. i pushed him about it because

seeing what this race is now would have played right into joe biden's wheelhouse. here's a taste. >> how are you handling watching this race when clearly every fiber in your being wants you to fight against donald trump? how are you handling not being in the race right now when you say there's so much at stake? >> well, i'm working like hell for hillary. i'm working like hell to make sure we have a democratic senate. you know, i've been all over the country. i don't know how -- i hope i'm some value added to them. but it is about just reminding people who we are as american z. >> but some in your party suggest nobody can make the case for the democrats when it comes to fighting for the middle class the way you can. seeing what this race has become -- we didn't see this coming a year and a half ago. we didn't see this state of play. do you feel that if you had known back then what you know now about what this race is, you would have made a different decision? >> i lost part of my soul when

my boy died. and you should never, ever, ever commit to run for president unless you know you can look the people in the eye and say, i guarantee you, you have all of my being, you have all of my energy, all of my family's energy to get this done. and i wish i were a better man, but i just wasn't ready to do that. but i'm doing my very best as i can to see to it i'm confident hillary will be a first-rate president. you know, everybody thinks when they're considering running, they only consider running if they they they'd be better. but that all changed for my when beau passed. so i'm working like devil to make sure that hillary wins. >> the debate for the vice president, what do you want people to remember when they watch that? >> i want them to remember that whomever the vice president they're looking at supporting is someone who has the trust and

confidence of the president, their candidate, and believes what their candidate believes because it is not -- and no longer is it sufficient for a president being able to handle everything himself or herself. they need additional help. one of the great, great gifts i've had being vice president is the president has given me major responsibility, turned it over and said, just do it. presidents from now and into the future are going to have to do that. if you have a candidate like i have a feeling -- i don't know -- that mike pence is, and i don't know that he really thinks a lot of what trump is saying makes any sense. what a hell of a way to make a living, to be vice president and have to get up every morning and support someone you don't agree with. maybe he does. if he does agree with him, then people can see the difference in policy here. i know tim kaine. he's smart as hell. he has significant experience. i know she trusts him, and i know he'll be able to fill that role. >> legacy.

what are you going to be most proud of when this term is over? >> that i left the job hopefully with my reputation intact and my republican colleagues and democratic colleagues knowing i never, ever misled them. >> what about the moon shot? >> the moon shot is something i'm going to stay involved in as long as i'm around. >> the fight for cancer, to find a way. >> by the way, we can. we're at an inflection point in the war against cancer. we now have all these tools. the last five years for the first time, all these different disciplines are actually working with one another. the immunologists, the whole -- and it takes an entire, entire inner disciplinary effort to make the kind of changes. going to the moon, there's only

one moon. there's over 200 cancers. and it takes an awful lot of work. we're making progress. i'm convinced we can change people's lives, extend their lives, and cure some cancers. >> you got a lot of life left, god willing. when people think about your time as vice president, joe biden, dot, dot, dot. finish the sentence. >> joe biden was value added to barack obama. they took the nation through the second most difficult economic time in history, and they put it on his feet and it's growing. >> wow. chris, great interview. he makes it sound as though he's okay with his choice for having not run for president. what did you feel and sense from him? >> he can't be okay with it. it has to be tearing him up. look, everybody can understand what his motivation was personally. i knew his son. beau was one of the most special people in public service i had ever met. he wanted his father to run for president. i was raised by a man who

agonized over his decision not to run for president. mostly because of outside optics. but joe is going to have to deal with that too. he's going to be -- when this is all over, no matter how it comes out, people are going to say, but what if he had been in? that's one of the things that politicians, who some think could be great, that they have to deal with. but he was really good to give us the interview and to give us some thought into these deeper areas. >> well, the two men hoping to be joe biden's successor will make their case tonight. mike pence and tim kaine square off in their one and only debate. what will they say to help their running mates tonight? otless ves have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist.

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big night of the vp variety. governor mike pence of indiana, senator tim kaine of virginia, going face to face just a few hours from now. we'll put up a clock so you can keep track of it. this will be the first and only vice presidential debate. a new cnn national poll shows voters are evenly split over who will come out on top. let's get some good discussion on this. mark preston, cnn politics executive editor, and jim nolan, a reporter with the richmond times dispatch. jim has covered tim kaine extensively. thank you for using that cell phone as an ifb. our coms aside, we'll have a good discussion. what do you see as some of the main battle lines tonight? >> you know, tonight these two gentlemen are not necessarily going to be battling one another, they're going to be trying to prop up their running mates as well as trying to take them down. expect tim kaine to talk about donald trump's taxes and to try to put mike pence on the defense.

mike pence has released his taxes. also, some of the other issues that they've dealt with, such as trade, mike pence and donald trump have been on opposite sides. on flip side, you'll see mike pence come out and try to talk about benghazi, try to talk about hillary clinton and the fact he doesn't think she's necessarily too honest and really try to take her down a notch, especially coming off a pretty strong debate she had last week. >> jim, we like the cell phone prop. it looks like you're getting breaking news. this just in. so jim, you've covered virginia politics and tim kaine for many, many years. tim kaine has the hometown advantage tonight. what are you watching for? >> well, i'm looking for pretty much the same thing that the other side was. tim kaine is there to be hillary clinton's surrogate. he's a very able-bodied surrogate, especially in virginia, where he has served as a city councilman, a mayor, a lieutenant governor, a governor, and a u.s. senator. of course, the hometown

advantage is taken a little farther when you think about farmville, which is essentially right near where the civil war ended and also where the civil rights movement began. kaine has dedicated his life and public service to racial reconciliation. he was a civil rights attorney in richmond. he spent thyme ime in honduras missionary. just outside of farmville is the high school where barbara john staged a student walkout in 1951 that led eventually to the brown versus board of education case that the supreme court decided several years later, desegregating schools in virginia and elsewhere. so tim kaine is in a good position. i imagine he'll hit on his civil rights record. i think he'll also start to reinforce the clinton narrative, which is that trump is unfit to be president. he lacks the temperament to either handle foreign policy or to understand the struggles of average working americans. >> jim, the trump campaign has therefore used a pre-emptive

punch on some of what you're calling out as kaine's credentials. they have an ad out there, willie horton of-esque, talking about how kaine defended horrible murderers and spent time with a marxist, also known as a catholic priest. do you think that will have a chance of knocking kaine off his game? >> i think they're going to try, but kaine is a very seasoned debater. sometimes he's pretty much the smartest guy in the room, and his genius is, he doesn't let you know that. i'm sure kaine is very well prepared for this. this was a narrative that was put forward when kaine was running for office in virginia some time ago. it was pretty much dismissed early on. i think kaine is going to try and keep pence on the defensive, frankly, about trump, about some of his comments with regard to veterans with ptsd. i also expect to hear a little bit of narrative about the supreme court. of course, key demographic in this race, one that's up for

grabs, suburban white women, both educated and noneducated. kaine is going to paint himself and clinton as positive for women. he's probably going to try and paint trump, especially in the light of the alicia machado comments, as someone who's somewhat hostile to women. >> hey, mark, you know, no voters that you ever talk to say, i'm going to vote for this person because i sure like their vp pick. so what do these guys need to do tonight? >> well, you know, what's interesting about governor pence is that when he was selected by donald trump, there was a big sigh of relief that came out of republican circles. there was some concern among some ultra conservatives about things he had done in indiana. bottom line is mike pence has been a very able surrogate on behalf of donald trump. tonight he's going to have to do a lot of cleanup. he will have to address a lot of the things that donald trump has said, which by the way is certainly out of character for the way that mike has governed, as well as the way mike pence

has dealt with his personal life. so we'll see a lot of that tonight. what's interesting about mike pence is that he calls himself this. he calls himself a christian, a conservative, and a republican in that order. so it will be interesting tonight to see if he does that to try to see if he can try to draw in any of the real undecideds or even those sitting on the fence, some of the republican conservatives who are concerned about donald trump. so we will see that tonight. i don't expect we'll see a whole lot of fireworks between these two men directed at each other. i mean, they both were governors. they have similar backgrounds. here's the interesting thing. they are both political insiders. mike pence spent several years in the house of representatives. tim kaine in the senate. tim kaine, the dnc chair. so i can't expect that they will be fighting amongst that tonight, you know, when we see them on the stage. >> and they both pride themselves on being nice as well as not name calling. so we'll see what happens when they're under the white-hot glare of the spotlight. gentlemen, thanks so much for

talking this through with us. great to talk to you. well, libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson holding steady in the polls despite several high-profile gaffes. can his ticket make a move or even swing this election? we're going to speak with him live next. >> there he is. >> hi, governor. talk to you in a minute. ♪ ♪ jon batiste has mastered new ways to play old classics. with chase atms, he can master new ways to deposit checks too. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master.

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"ummm--mom, how do i monitor my credit?" "ok. thanks mom." "that was easy." "sign up for credit karma's free credit monitoring today. we have to keep updating you on this hurricane matthew situation. take a look at this image. this is from space, okay? this is from the international

space station. see that little hole in the middle? that is the eye of matthew. this is how massive this hurricane is. it's very big, and also moving very slowly, that's why there's so much concern about what's going to happen when it hits haiti with its full force, cuba, and then this new track that has it coming up our east coast. cnn meteorologist chad myers has the latest. the new information is bad information. >> it is. here's what happened overnight. the models all turned left. we rely on these models. there are 30 of them, and the models all now are taking this storm a dangerous category 3 storm very close to florida. and, in fact, the cone well on to florida, well on to south carolina or even north carolina. but look at the number. this is the dangerous thing that i'm seeing right here. that's 120-mile-per-hour storm off the cape. whether that's left or right, we'll have to see, but you need to know, no da, that you're in the way. here's what it looks like right

now. the storm is making landfall on the peninsula in haiti. it's going to get into the bahamas. it's going to get into the turks and caicos and maybe hopefully turn to the right. if it doesn't turn to the right in time, all of a sudden we have a land falling hurricane, a major hurricane into the united states. and the models yesterday were well out into the ocean. today the models are not into the ocean, the models have turned to the left. they have turned towards the united states. a couple days away, but you need to take precautions now. keep watching this storm. we'll have a new track at 11:00. the models are rerunning now, but we'll see what happens then, alisyn alisyn. >> turning to the 2016 race, we are joined by libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson. our new cnn national poll shows him holding steady at 7% with hillary clinton back on top. only 35 days left to go before election day. let's bring in governor johnson now. good morning, governor. >> hi, alisyn.

>> great to have you here. so let's talk about a couple of the awkward moments first before we get to some other stuff. i just want to ask you about some of the foreign policy flubs that you've had publicly lately. first there was the aleppo moment where you didn't know where aleppo was and then you couldn't name your favorite foreign leader. so what's going on with you and foreign affairs? how do you explain those moments? >> well, alisyn, what is it, five days now after the name your favorite foreign leader. i still can't do that. >> why not? >> one of the surprises -- >> but i mean why not? favorite. favorite foreign leader. i can't name -- you know, getting involved in politics having never been involved in politics before, i held a lot of people in this country on pedestals and then i get to meet them up front and personal and i find out that they're all about getting re-elected, that they're not about issues, a lot of empty

suits that i held up on pedestals. so i'm a real skeptic. so i point out an elected leader, foreign leader that i admire and all of a sudden i have to defend them against things that i'm not even aware of. so in that context, alisyn, look, if that's a disqualifier to run for president, so be it. and with regard to aleppo, look, why can't we admit to in this case we're involved in syria, we're involved in a civil war where hundreds and thousands of innocent people have died and because we're involved in both sides of this cross fire we have to take some responsibility for a lot of those people that have died. but i guess because you can -- you can dot the is and cross the ts on foreign leaders and geographic locations, that now somehow you're qualified to put us in that situation? hey, if that ends up to be the case, so be it.

i guess i wasn't meant to be president. if -- if you want somebody that's honest in the office, that's going to admit to mistakes, and by admitting mistakes you can move forward. by first admitting mistakes. but we've got trump and clinton that neither of them will admit mistakes. trump right now with his tax return. you know, he's presented himself as this guy who's omnipotent when it comes to investments and clearly he's made money, he's lost money. how about just admitting to be a human being? well, he's never done that. >> well, look, governor, this is a new explanation and it's an interesting one, that you didn't want to name your favorite foreign leader, not because you don't know foreign leaders but because you didn't want to name a favorite. the way it came off was that you weren't engaged, that you sort of hadn't studied up on foreign affairs. here's what the washington -- >> that's just -- well, and that's what -- that's what angers me about this process is because -- and in this case an

emphasis on being able to do that as opposed to how about an emphasis on common sense, how about an emphasis on representing our military in ways that don't put them in horrible situations. and we've put our military in horrible situations. a cross fire that, like i say, we have to bear partial responsibility for what's happening. >> here's what the washington post said this weekend after you didn't name your favorite foreign leader. they said, does mr. johnson's running mate, former governor william wells who is much sharper, really want to help donald trump win and be remembered as the ralph nader of 2016? this is not a case of having to choose head over heart. mr. johnson is a good natured but wholly unprepared and unwilling or unable to learn. so that was their take is that you seemed unwilling to engage in terms of, yes, look, you

don't want to put our military into harm's way, but you have to know what the harm is first. >> you bet, and that's what it seems has been lost in this whole equation. the country ought to be outraged over what we are doing militarily. the country ought to be outraged that we involve ourselves in regime change and because we do that the unintended consequence is a less safe world, that we bear responsibility for what's happening in the world. and nobody seems to want to bear responsibility. everybody wants to keep doing more of the same, and it doesn't work. so back to honesty and integrity. look, where is it? it's neither trump nor clinton. i would love to see a poll head to head, johnson versus clinton, johnson versus trump. i think that would really be revealing. i think i would be the president of the united states in that poll. >> you think that you would beat donald trump or hillary clinton

in a head-to-head match-up right now? >> head to head. yeah. how about commissioning that poll, cnn. not you, alisyn. i know you'd do it. >> come on, i could be a pollster in my spare time. governor, right now what we have is the four-way poll. in that you're getting 7%. so given the -- >> well, in that 7%, alisyn, in that 7% millennials are not even -- they're nonapplicable in that very poll that you're citing. and among millennials right now, we're tied for the lead with clinton. significant in being tied with the lead with clinton is that we've come up from nowhere to be tied. >> wait a second. >> the internet. they don't have a fulcrum when it comes to the media. >> hold on. let's put these up. we have likely voters under age 35 in the four-way race here, clinton gets 50%, you get 17%. so how is that tied with clinton?

>> well, maybe i was looking at the wrong -- maybe i was looking at the wrong poll that you're citing right now, but a recent poll that i looked at yesterday that had me at 7%, i thought that's the one that you're talking about, has an na after those 50 and under, not applicable. well, if i'm at 7% and you have a nonapplicable age group under the age of 50, you know, that's where i draw my votes. i'm leading among independents. now like i say, i apologize if yours is a different poll than the one i looked at prior to coming on here. >> okay. governor, we'll take it at that. governor gary johnson, thanks so much for sharing your passion on "new day" this morning. >> thank you. >> on all of that. we'll see you soon. >> thank you very much. >> we're following a lot of news. let's get right to it. i made my money following the law. hillary clinton made her money as a corrupt public official. >> trump was taking from america

with both hands and leaving the rest of us with the bill. >> i have legally used the tax laws to my benefit. i have brilliantly used those laws. >> this is trump to a tee, trump first and everyone else last. >> when people come back for more, they see things that a lot of the folks in this room have seen many things time over. a lot of people can't handle it. how can you be so out of touch? >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day," tuesday, october 4th. 8:00 in the east. up first, hillary clinton retaking the lead in a new cnn national poll. she apparently got a boost after the first debate as you can see there. clinton now with a 5 point lead over donald trump. she gets 47% to his 42%. that is in a four-way race. this as trump digs in over his tax turmoil. >> johnson getting 7%.

alisyn did a good interview with him. you should watch it online. we'll have it up there soon. we have an exclusive interview with vice president joe biden. we ran down to florida. he's trying to help clinton in that state. the polls going back and forth very tight. he was very spicy about this election, why it matters. the case for the middle class. now he also talked about the vp debate and what can happen there. that's tonight. there's your debate clock. only 35 days until election day, only 5 days until the next big presidential debate. let's begin our coverage. we have cnn political director david chalian live in washington. take us through the poll numbers. what do you see? >> the top line from alisyn. 47% to 42%. take a look at where the candidates came from in our last poll. you look here and see hillary clinton grew 4 points. 43% around labor day to 47% now. donald trump lost 3 points, 45% to 42%. there's her n